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🔗 David Sommerseth<a href="https://fosstodon.org/@underseamonkey" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@underseamonkey</a> <a href="https://mastodon.org.uk/@Waxingtonknee" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@Waxingtonknee</a> yuck .... autotools 🫤 $ meson setup _builddir && meson compile -C _builddir && meson install -C _builddir There. Fixed it for you.<a href="https://infosec.exchange/tags/meson" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#meson</a> <a href="https://infosec.exchange/tags/meson_buildsystem" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#meson_buildsystem</a>

Kevin Bowen :xfce:<a href="https://mastodon.sdf.org/@jloc0" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@jloc0</a> Indeed.Aside from all of the other work going on, there is also a concerted effort to migrate from using <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/autotools" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#autotools</a> to <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/meson" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#meson</a> for builds. <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Xfce" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Xfce</a>

TOVGIMP 3.0’s development has improved significantly because the development team has switched from autotools to Meson for compiling. This has resulted in a major speed-up when building GIMP, allowing for quicker testing and development.<a href="https://mesonbuild.com/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank">https://mesonbuild.com/</a><a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/GIMP" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#GIMP</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Meson" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Meson</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/build" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#build</a>

Thomas Frans 🇺🇦I love documentation like this. Straight to the point.<a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Meson" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Meson</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/c" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#c</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/programming" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#programming</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/development" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#development</a>

Erik C. ThauvinGit 2.48 Released With Initial Support For The Meson Build System<a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/git" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#git</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/meson" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#meson</a><a href="https://www.phoronix.com/news/Git-2.48-Released?utm_medium=erik.in&utm_source=mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank">https://www.phoronix.com/news/Git-2.48-Released?utm_medium=erik.in&utm_source=mastodon</a>

Helsinki Python🎄 Christmas is nearly here and that means it's time to join us for our December meet, hosted by <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Nitor" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Nitor</a>!<a href="https://www.meetup.com/helpy-meetups/events/304793959/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank">https://www.meetup.com/helpy-meetups/events/304793959/</a>❄️ Creating Python modules and libraries using <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Rust" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Rust</a>, by Akseli Lukkarila❄️ <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Meson" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Meson</a>: a Build system in and for Python, by Jussi Pakkanen❄️ <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/JAX" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#JAX</a>: A Python ecosystem for machine learning and numerical computation, by Nazaal Ibrahim <a href="https://sigmoid.social/@nazaal" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@nazaal</a> ❄️ And did someone say something about a quiz?<a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/HelPy" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#HelPy</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Helsinki" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Helsinki</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Finland" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Finland</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Python" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Python</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/meetup" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#meetup</a>

mgorny-nyan (he) :autism:🙀🚂🐧I suppose I could use my experience to give some <a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/tags/PEP517" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#PEP517</a> build system recommendations.For pure <a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/tags/Python" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Python</a> packages:1. <a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/tags/flit_core" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#flit_core</a> (<a href="https://pypi.org/project/flit-core/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank">https://pypi.org/project/flit-core/</a>) — it's lightweight and simple, and has no dependencies (in modern Python versions, for older Pythons it vendors tomli).2. <a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/tags/hatchling" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#hatchling</a> (<a href="https://pypi.org/project/hatchling/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank">https://pypi.org/project/hatchling/</a>) — it's popular and quite powerful, but has many vendored dependencies and no stand-alone test suite (which makes it painful to maintain in <a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/tags/Gentoo" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Gentoo</a>).For Python packages with C extensions: <a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/tags/meson" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#meson</a>-python (<a href="https://pypi.org/project/meson-python/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank">https://pypi.org/project/meson-python/</a>) — which combines the power and correctness of meson build system with good very Python integration.For Python packages with Rust extensions: <a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/tags/maturin" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#maturin</a> (<a href="https://pypi.org/project/maturin/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank">https://pypi.org/project/maturin/</a>) — which is simply a good builder for precisely that kind of packages.Now, I strongly discourage:A. <a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/tags/setuptools" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#setuptools</a> — lots of vendored NIH dependencies (that can alternatively be unvendored for cyclic deps), lots of deprecations over time (we're still seeing tons of deprecation warnings all over the place), many unsolved bugs (e.g. parallel C extension builds are broken in a few ways), a lot of technical debt, and if all that wasn't enough, it's slow.B. <a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/tags/poetry" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#poetry</a>-core — a very tricky build system with lots of pitfalls (I've reported a lot of mistakes done when migrating to it).C. Practically any other build system — writing new backends is trivial, so everyone and their grandmother must have one. And then, they often carry a lot of NIH dependencies (if you're reinventing a build system, you may reinvent everything else), lack experience and reintroduce the same bugs. And if that wasn't enough, packaging them in distributions is a lot of work for no real benefit to anyone.

Thomas Adam<a href="https://bsd.network/tags/fvwm3" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#fvwm3</a> <a href="https://bsd.network/tags/autotools" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#autotools</a> <a href="https://bsd.network/tags/meson" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#meson</a> <a href="https://bsd.network/tags/muon" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#muon</a> <a href="https://bsd.network/tags/buildsystem" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#buildsystem</a> Hey all! Please note that although fvwm3-1.1.1 is close to being relesaed, there's still a few more things left to do.Before that point, I'd like to take the opportunity to mention that as of fvwm3-1.1.1 fvwm3 is officially using meson/muon as the buildsystem of choice.Autotools has been a tremendous help over the years. Heck, fvwm as a project started long before autotools existed.But as technology changes, newer buildsystem alternatives have come along making better use of hardware, compilation speeds, etc.Indeed, because of fvwm's age -- there's a tonne of custom m4 macros -- some of which are to work around issues long since gone. With autotools recently deprecating many of these, maintaining this was becoming difficult. Hence the change.A six-month window exists once fvwm3-1.1.1 is released for downstream packagers to make the move from autotools to meson.The `main` branch in the fvwm3 repository contains both buildsystems. Please give meson some testing!A huge thanks goes to Kanjie (Matt Jolly) -- without whom none of this work would have been possible. Thanks, Matt!For more specific details. please see: <a href="https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwm3/discussions/1068" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwm3/discussions/1068</a>Questions? I'm here...

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