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The most difficult current problem for political parties is (as Democrats reflect on their loss):
If voters' views diverge from your's/supporters' (say on immigration), how do you proceed?
a) shift your stance to attract those voters (who may in any case reject your overtures as they see you speaking in bad faith)?
b) try to change their minds, by contradicting the powerful right wing media?
To often its a) as politicians feel they cannot effectively counter the right wing media.
@ChrisMayLA6 Starmer said there were “justifiable concerns“. He didn’t combat, he pandered. When they say the quiet part out loud, telling us who and what they are, we should believe them.
#FBPE 
@ChrisMayLA6 My answer to this is strength. Standing firm. People's opinions and red lines are sliding, deep down they want leaders who aren't. Show don't tell, lead the way and don't for a second fall for any of the bullshit. Red lines, principles, militant equanimity.
I agree; actions speaking (much) louder than words.... and that's why sound bites in the end are taken as bad faith...
@ChrisMayLA6 Hmm, maybe for politics it's show *and* tell but that sounds like they're at primary school!
@ChrisMayLA6 Like, I would go on Question Time and tell Farage exactly what I think of him and his policies. Get Miliband to tear Tice a new one like he did in Parliament.
@ChrisMayLA6 If you’re not going to try to change your followers’ minds when they are wrong, you have no business calling yourself a leader.
@ChrisMayLA6 This is the reason why overly ideological parties always remain small. This is also why respect for democracy is decreasing, since the parties that want to grow compromise themselves into "nothingness". We end up with a few big blocks (or parties) that make no big difference overall, and people lose interest in democracy.
But I guess then the Q. is what lies between ideological purity compromising into nothingness.... and there lies any potential future for democracy to save itself from your pessimistic (if not unwarranted) thumbnail analysis.... as a democrat (opinion, not US party, of course), I want to see it succeed, but equally I can see right now its not well served by those who swim in its formal waters....
Is the answer voting/electoral reform?
[edited for clarification]
@ChrisMayLA6 I do not have the answer. If I were to speculate lobbyism is one factor crushing it, in some cases the ideology is too extreme and it is justified that it remains small, a compromising culture (in northern europe) sees compromising as "adult" and something to strive after, while strict positions are seen as childish.
I think a lot depends on culture.
But let's look at the other end of the spectrum... can you imagine a parliament with hard core marxists, libertarians, nazis, and
@ChrisMayLA6 eco-fascists? Sounds like a recipe for disaster as well.
Maybe this is one of those "democracy is the best of the worst" truths, that are so difficult to change or tweak?
Yes, the democracy as worse, except for al other systems is where I often end up when I have my head in may hands....
@ChrisMayLA6 Don't you worry, we'll make a libertarian out of you, in time. ;)
Ha ha, well our discussion have already shown me I'm not as anti as I might have thought... so you're doing a good job
@ChrisMayLA6 What do you say about us taking our conversations, cleaning them up a bit and publishing them in a book, proving that in this day and age, conversation is still possible across the ideological divides?
This book could also profitably explore the theme of mastodon as a possible beneficial paradigm for bringing people together, instead of, as mainstream social media so often does, keeping people locked into echo chambers, and keeping them divided!
Having written nine books I now how much work that is.... let me have a think about it; but I like the idea....
@ChrisMayLA6 Great! =) I am happily naive and ignorant, having written nothing longer than my masters thesis at 110 pages, which I imagine is nothing at all like writing a book.
I did get advice once from a science fiction author about writing a book, and he said: "for the love of god, please don't do it to earn money. Do it because you enjoy it."
It does sound like good advice. ;)
@ChrisMayLA6 On the theme of the book... I've been able to export all of my messages from my mastodon instance. Sadly the export functionality does not include your replies to my messages, but it is a start!
If you can export your posts from your instance, you should then be able to _somewhat_ clean it up with the same command line incantation nI used (if you use linux), and since time stamps are included, some programming should then be able to "merge" our conversations again.
@ChrisMayLA6 That should be much easier to work with, allowing us to sort, delete, and pick up interesting threads, instead of manually having to click back along our time lines to try and dig up our lost favourites.
Leave this with me - I have quite a busy week, but will explore the possibility when I ma back with (some) time on my hands after the weekend....
@ChrisMayLA6 No problem! Hope you're having a productive and pleasant week, and let's see after the weekend. =)
@ChrisMayLA6 @h4890 definitely NOT - electoral reform Absolutelely! I am sure you are not calling for people to vote for Reform!!! 
ha ha, edited to clear up this lack of clarity!
The Democrats believe they're still talking to people's brains, when they should understand it's about the human heart.
Immigration? Tell them the Republicans can't do math. Who will replace the Mexicans who now work in the dairy barns, when Trump exiles them?
Americans aren't having two children per couple. We need immigrants, we've always needed them.
I don't argue the point. I tell them the GOP has tricked them.
@ChrisMayLA6 A fair answer is probably “it depends”
@ChrisMayLA6
I want a politician, and his party to define their policies, and hold true to them.
Then, I'll find the one who most closely believes as I do, and vote for him/her.
I understand that we'll not agree on every point of policy, it's more like a friendship, than a marriage, and there will be areas where I may be able to compromise.
1/2
@ChrisMayLA6 As you have alluded to, elections are only won by obtaining votes, and so political folks need to appeal to "the many" and that makes it hard to stick to principles which may be less popular. 2/2
But this is where leadership should play a role; as you say you (we) try to find the politician with the closest fit, but then we can also be convinced to shift bye that person if they are good at expressing & shaping different policies to the one's we might espouse - their 'friendship' as you put it can be sued not to just reflect voters views but to try to shift them positively... but of course, politicians don't seem to see such 'leadership' as within their grasp?
@ChrisMayLA6
Politicians of all colours seem to have forgotten that the ‘other’ way to be respected is to be right*. Nye Bevan set up the NHS despite the enemies who opposed him, and is revered as a result. I don’t suppose the Pharos or Qin Shi Huang (who built the Great Wall) were particularly popular either, but their legacies have lasted thousands of years.
*as in correct, not as in political philosophy. 
@KimSJ @ChrisMayLA6 I’d like to have the whole of the Parliamentary Labour Party (I use “Labour” with a sense of irony) and their researchers/hangers on watch “Nye” on a loop until it dawns on them that they’re there for the good and wellbeing of the people.
I know I’m pi**ing in the wind but you’ve got to have hope.
@ChrisMayLA6 Or (c) Build a different coalition of voters that makes it possible to win without the support of voters who have dipped their hands in the blood of racist causes and racist candidates. Here in the UK, the window for doing that is getting very narrow indeed, but I think it might be a bit wider in the US.
Yes, but I was writing about the UK in the first instance (like there you may be thinking I'm in the US as my instance is... but I live in the UK; sorry for the confusion)
@ChrisMayLA6 I think the influence of right-wing media is sufficiently strong that the only way to proceed is to do something about that first.
Corbyn's campaign attempted to go with b), and the right-wing media effectively destroyed not just his campaign, but his entire political career.
Until *something* is done about them, I don't think it's realistic to ever expect anything even slightly left-of-centre to be successful.
If I knew what that something was, of course, I'd be famous by now!
Yes, I agree; media ownership really is the most important aspect of trying to reform democracy in the UK in a positive direction... at the very least we need greater plurality of ownership